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The Essence of Forms
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The Essence of Forms
Robert Bresson deforms the sense(s)
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"Nicodemus said unto him,
'How can a man be born when he is old?
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Can he enter a second time
into his mother's womb and be born?
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Jesus answered, 'Do not marvel that
I said to you, You must be born again.
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The wind blows where it wishes,
and you hear the sound of it,
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but cannot tell where it comes from
and where it goes.'"
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You hear me?
- I'm listening.
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Fire!
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I have the feeling that Bresson...
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wouldn't appreciate
having one of his "models"...
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speak about his film.
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I don't think he'd have liked that.
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Anyway, it's part of a greater problem:
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Would he have liked...
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having DVD bonus material?
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I don't think so.
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I think Bresson...
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would certainly have preferred
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his films to be shown
on a big screen in a movie theater.
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The idea of them being watched
on a small TV screen
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or even a cell phone
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definitely wouldn't have pleased him.
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That's all. But since we must,
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I'm happy to talk about his film.
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But I needed to explain that,
in memory of Bresson.
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I don't consider him an outsider.
He was an insider.
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Inside the system,
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he really shook up...
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the established conventions of film.
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- Was he a rebel?
- Absolutely.
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He was a rebel,
and he remained a rebel.
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We saw several films together.
He never liked them.
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We'd do some location scouting,
then go to the movies.
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He'd quiver in his seat, muttering,
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"How can they do such things?"
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It didn't seem bad to me.
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Plus, I'd take him to see
what I considered "good films."
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He was never —
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Watching the films of others...
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was hard for him, I think.
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It all stemmed from that.
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He'd pondered over the essence of film
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and realized cinema
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was neither a novel nor a play on film.
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It was something else,
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more related to music
and painting.
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At first, he wanted to be a painter.
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He painted a lot, and quite well.
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I remember, one day
when we were talking about cinema,
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he said, "You know, Pierre" —
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Preparing a film, you share
exceptional moments with directors.
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What follows is generally
less exceptional
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and less pleasant!
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Preparing a film is the part of our job
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that's under a lucky star.
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One day he said, "You know, Pierre" —
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we were talking about painting —
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"I really loved painting,
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but no one ever saw my work.
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Perhaps I make films
so people see my work."
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Whether we use painting,
the pictorial form, or the filmic form,
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the form is the force.
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Consider van Gogh's vision
of a poppy field. It's quite distinctive.
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It's no longer a poppy field.
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The subject disappears,
or rather, it's deformed by the form.
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The way he distorts the poppies
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lets us feel the man
seeing those poppies.
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We feel —
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They are no longer poppies.
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I mean sunflowers.
They are no longer sunflowers.
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It's something else.
It's the man's heart.
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He's closer to his heart
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painting sunflowers
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than if he tried to express
his inner feelings
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which he can't paint.
Bresson does the same thing.
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His great strength is he realized...
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the subject must be very simple.
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The great films always have
a very simple subject, a clear story.
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The simpler it is, the greater
the possibilities for mise-en-scène.
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Your turn. Go down.
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It's an easy film to watch.
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A child could understand it.
A condemned prisoner escapes.
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It's suspenseful —
Will he escape?
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He's condemned,
so if he doesn't, he'll die.
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We know that.
Will he succeed?
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It's such a mainstream story,
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but it has a spiritual impact
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which comes from the mise-en-scène,
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not from the story.
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It was a great pleasure
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to see how this man and I
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managed to create the shots.
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He had an idea for the shot,
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his script was very precise,
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but our challenge was to pare an image
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down to its essence,
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to show only what is needed,
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nothing else.
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We stripped each shot
down to the bone.
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It was the fruit
of multiple requirements.
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The pace of the dolly shot,
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the use of only one focal length,
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the way he positioned
the actors' eye lines,
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the way one shot followed the next.
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He used all these ideas
to create a fluid mise-en-scène.
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He was constantly on guard
for anything jarring.
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Not jarring like this,
not in the usual sense,
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but anything that interfered
with the project.
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It's really impressive.
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The asceticism, the starkness.
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The humility.
It's an ascetic mind-set.
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You could consider it
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liturgical cinema.
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It's a ritual.
The shots repeat like a rite.
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Often, scenes are repeated.
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We hear the same sounds.
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The whole film
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takes place in one setting.
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There's only a few sounds,
no more than four or five,
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over its 90 minutes.
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The strength of the film...
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lies in its single-minded fixation.
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It uses simple images,
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clearly defined and repeated.
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But it deepens with each repetition,
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for the mise-en-scène
constantly changes.
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The corporal slept on the ground floor
near the door to which he had the key.
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This door remained locked
throughout the night.
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I visualized every possibility
and even what was impossible.
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I devised a thousand plans,
but acted on none.
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In the prison yard,
when they empty the buckets,
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the seemingly repetitive shots
are never the same.
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It's incredible.
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It expresses their captivity,
lack of freedom,
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how they are forced
to repeat the same motions
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to avoid attracting
the guards' attention,
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yet at the same time,
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the tiny daring actions,
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like at the sink,
"Quiet!"—
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Quiet! No talking!
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The tiny changes, an iota of change
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that destabilizes
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the repetitive nature of prison life.
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You see it in the films
of Dreyer, Jean Epstein,
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that whole tradition
of mystical filmmakers.
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All of their mise-en-scène is —
Dreyer's films are incredibly austere.
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My only reservation about Bresson
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is he's always made out to be
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a pioneer,
as if everything started with him,
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when in fact,
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he's the spiritual son
of other filmmakers.
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He is part of that history.
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He's influenced by Dreyer,
by Epstein,
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by all those directors of the past
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whose films
his work is rooted in.
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We need to pay homage
where homage is due,
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not just to Robert Bresson.
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Once I was there
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when they screened some edited scenes.
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Bresson never entered the editing room.
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After the dailies,
he had them screen what they'd edited.
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With the editor, he'd watch
bits of what had been edited.
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Once, I stayed with them.
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After watching three minutes
of what had been edited,
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he said to the editor,
"You're totally off track.
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Reedit it for tomorrow."
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Without any further explanation.
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"You don't understand
what I want to express."
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The editor redid it,
and the next day it was a bit better,
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and that's how they worked.
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Bresson told me once,
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"What matters
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isn't one shot or the other.
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It's where the two shots meet.
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That expresses everything."
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Shot A with Shot B
expresses one thing.
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Shot A with Shot C is totally different.
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He always said,
"Geneviève, think of how they join."
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Bresson used very brief shots.
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Look at his scripts.
The shots are very short.
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What mattered to him
was the "joint" between two shots.
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In general, he used brief shots.
Always shot with a 50mm.
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He used one focal length.
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50mm.
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It comes closest to human eyesight.
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He never ceased to amaze me
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with this 50mm,
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which fit his vision of things.
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It was his vision,
how he saw things,
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so the 50mm was always
glued to the camera.
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But this restriction
gave him ideas for mise-en-scène,
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for staging.
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It emphasized gestures.
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If you can't fit the gesture
and the face in the same frame,
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you have to choose:
The gesture or the face.
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This restriction gives you a freedom
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you don't have when you're "free"
to use other possibilities.
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That's impressive.
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He tried to find
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the perfect detail.
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The marvelous thing
is he tried to discover
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the link between reality
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and his characters' inner world.
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I think it really simplified his stories.
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By that I mean,
he wouldn't film what happened —
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he preferred to film the interior echo
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of what a character saw happen.
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I knew they conducted executions
within the prison compound.
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A crazy thought crossed my mind.
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In the cell,
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he cuts the scene into many shots,
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even though it's a small room.
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The images have a rhythm
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which is extraordinary,
and it's very clever
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how they evoke
the meticulousness of his escape plans.
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The image expresses his mind-set.
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He's a meticulous man.
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He prepares his escape
with utter concentration.
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The prisoner's mind-set
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is expressed by the mise-en-scène.
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We see it in the way
the scene is constructed.
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It allows us to enter Fontaine's mind.
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What he's actually expressing
is the spirit.
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Showing the prisoner's
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escape efforts in great detail
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evokes something deeper,
of spiritual import.
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It evokes...
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optimism, faith in the future,
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in opportunities,
in the strength of willpower.
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I see him as a Christian director.
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The best way to understand his work
is through his mind-set,
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the mind-set of his films.
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He's always labeled himself
a Catholic filmmaker,
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so his films are Catholic films,
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but that's great.
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The image, the sound, the actors,
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all evoke a spiritual asceticism,
a Christian asceticism,
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through which he expresses...
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his spirituality,
and notably, his faith.
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You, too, Mr. Blanchet,
should fight and hope.
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Hope for what?
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To go home, to be free.
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Free?
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- Somebody waiting for you?
- Nobody.
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A friend?
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I don't have friends.
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Fight anyway.
Fight for everyone here.
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Plus, it helps.
If you only look out for yourself...
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What else are you doing?
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I think of you, Mr. Blanchet,
and it gives me courage.
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I'd just finished my military service.
Back then, it lasted two years.
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I wanted to work in film,
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to get a job as a screenwriter,
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and some friends sent me to see
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a producer named Jean Thuillier.
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He was producing A Man Escaped,
258
00:16:33,744 --> 00:16:36,163
and he told me that Bresson
needed an actor.
259
00:16:36,246 --> 00:16:42,127
I'd never wanted to be an actor
260
00:16:42,211 --> 00:16:44,088
or act in a film,
261
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,802
but I thought it'd be
an interesting experience.
262
00:16:50,678 --> 00:16:55,349
I went to our appointment
on the Île Saint-Louis,
263
00:16:55,432 --> 00:16:58,435
and I met Robert Bresson.
264
00:16:59,269 --> 00:17:04,024
He said, "Let's try a few things."
265
00:17:04,108 --> 00:17:08,862
He had me do a reading using dialogue
from Les Anges du péché.
266
00:17:08,946 --> 00:17:10,989
I remember some of it.
267
00:17:12,449 --> 00:17:16,954
"Mother Mary thinks
dust on the furniture shocks God."
268
00:17:17,788 --> 00:17:19,832
Oddly,
269
00:17:21,375 --> 00:17:25,379
in Anne Wiazemsky's book
270
00:17:25,462 --> 00:17:28,132
on her experiences with Bresson,
271
00:17:28,215 --> 00:17:30,884
she mentions something quite similar.
272
00:17:30,968 --> 00:17:33,429
She met Bresson on Île Saint-Louis,
273
00:17:33,512 --> 00:17:36,849
and he had her read the same dialogue
274
00:17:36,932 --> 00:17:39,059
from Anges du péché.
275
00:17:39,143 --> 00:17:43,731
I assume this dialogue
was important to him.
276
00:17:43,814 --> 00:17:46,483
It allowed him to judge
277
00:17:46,567 --> 00:17:51,280
the latent possibilities
of the person reading it.
278
00:17:51,363 --> 00:17:53,866
Since I don't have a script,
279
00:17:55,159 --> 00:17:57,578
I think Bresson didn't give it to me.
280
00:17:57,661 --> 00:18:00,789
Maybe he didn't want me to know
281
00:18:00,873 --> 00:18:03,083
what would happen next.
282
00:18:03,167 --> 00:18:05,210
Yes, I do the same thing.
283
00:18:05,836 --> 00:18:09,965
- That's why I —
- Yes, I totally understand.
284
00:18:10,048 --> 00:18:13,719
I used to give actors scripts.
285
00:18:13,802 --> 00:18:18,348
I saw the disasters... it caused,
286
00:18:18,432 --> 00:18:20,350
so I no longer do that.
287
00:18:21,477 --> 00:18:25,522
Actors don't need to know.
288
00:18:25,606 --> 00:18:29,651
Actors should act without necessarily
understanding what they're doing.
289
00:18:31,195 --> 00:18:33,781
This misunderstanding or ignorance
290
00:18:33,864 --> 00:18:39,119
very often intensifies
the viewer's perception.
291
00:18:39,203 --> 00:18:41,455
It raises the viewer.
292
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:45,459
Otherwise, it's just an actor
reciting lines.
293
00:18:45,542 --> 00:18:47,544
It bores me.
294
00:18:47,628 --> 00:18:51,298
Bresson never gave me a direction
295
00:18:52,299 --> 00:18:55,803
in terms of emotion or feeling.
296
00:18:56,595 --> 00:18:59,348
He'd say, "Move from here to there,"
297
00:18:59,431 --> 00:19:01,725
"Look here, then there."
298
00:19:04,895 --> 00:19:09,525
And we'd do it over
until it was exactly how he wanted.
299
00:19:10,108 --> 00:19:14,863
But he never said,
"In this shot, he's angry." Never.
300
00:19:14,947 --> 00:19:18,867
He never gave directions
about interiority
301
00:19:18,951 --> 00:19:25,707
the way other directors
do on their films,
302
00:19:25,791 --> 00:19:28,168
telling actors,
"Give it more feeling."
303
00:19:28,252 --> 00:19:29,878
No. Absolutely not.
304
00:19:29,962 --> 00:19:32,256
I think we discover
305
00:19:33,841 --> 00:19:40,430
that we need to find new ways
of directing an actor,
306
00:19:40,514 --> 00:19:42,641
something besides realism.
307
00:19:42,724 --> 00:19:45,727
We try substituting expressions,
308
00:19:45,811 --> 00:19:48,146
reversing things.
309
00:19:48,564 --> 00:19:50,691
The more things we invert,
310
00:19:51,733 --> 00:19:53,902
the more surprising the effect.
311
00:19:55,028 --> 00:19:58,532
We need surprise. It's part of cinema.
We say, "Isn't that strange?"
312
00:19:58,615 --> 00:20:00,367
"Isn't that strange?"
313
00:20:00,450 --> 00:20:05,956
We move away from realism and reality.
314
00:20:07,499 --> 00:20:14,381
The only way to do it is
by finding substitutes for acting.
315
00:20:14,756 --> 00:20:19,386
When he attacks the guard,
his hands are like this,
316
00:20:19,469 --> 00:20:21,013
like Nosferatu.
317
00:20:21,096 --> 00:20:23,807
It's totally surrealistic,
318
00:20:24,141 --> 00:20:26,643
the position of his hands.
319
00:20:35,235 --> 00:20:39,114
The position of the hands
expresses his character's ugliness,
320
00:20:39,197 --> 00:20:41,158
his capacity to kill.
321
00:20:42,326 --> 00:20:46,830
It's done very simply.
He doesn't need to film the murder.
322
00:20:50,876 --> 00:20:53,337
It's yet another evocation.
323
00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:57,382
He leaves the rest to our imagination,
and that's where it unfurls.
324
00:20:57,466 --> 00:21:01,303
Using the viewer's imagination
is much more effective
325
00:21:01,386 --> 00:21:03,680
than showing...
326
00:21:04,723 --> 00:21:07,434
the guard being attacked,
or rather, murdered.
327
00:21:07,517 --> 00:21:10,312
He meticulously described
each action of the actor.
328
00:21:10,395 --> 00:21:15,567
If he was to pick up a glass like this,
329
00:21:16,401 --> 00:21:19,821
it was like this,
not like this.
330
00:21:19,905 --> 00:21:23,116
Each movement had been analyzed.
331
00:21:24,534 --> 00:21:26,995
The pace of each movement too.
332
00:21:29,247 --> 00:21:32,417
It was totally controlled,
333
00:21:35,712 --> 00:21:39,007
due to his constant worry
of betraying the subject.
334
00:21:39,091 --> 00:21:45,305
Everyone knew that Bresson did
25, 30, 40, 50 takes.
335
00:21:45,389 --> 00:21:47,182
In Au hasard Balthazar
336
00:21:47,265 --> 00:21:50,727
for a shot
337
00:21:50,811 --> 00:21:54,564
with two or three words,
we did...
338
00:21:54,648 --> 00:21:56,566
more than 50 takes.
339
00:21:57,109 --> 00:22:00,153
He doesn't direct the actors,
340
00:22:00,237 --> 00:22:02,990
or rather,
the people playing the character.
341
00:22:03,073 --> 00:22:05,617
They have a line.
342
00:22:06,076 --> 00:22:08,245
He says, "Okay, say your line."
343
00:22:09,121 --> 00:22:12,624
"No, do it again."
344
00:22:13,125 --> 00:22:15,002
The cameraman says,
"It's good for camera."
345
00:22:15,085 --> 00:22:16,545
"No, do it again."
346
00:22:16,628 --> 00:22:18,672
He doesn't give any directions,
347
00:22:18,755 --> 00:22:22,759
just does it until the actors are worn out.
348
00:22:22,843 --> 00:22:26,680
He told me, "In real life,
349
00:22:26,763 --> 00:22:31,393
when you say, 'I'll buy some bread,'
did you think about it first?
350
00:22:31,476 --> 00:22:36,648
No, you say it naturally,
as naturally as walking.
351
00:22:36,732 --> 00:22:38,358
That's what I want."
352
00:22:38,442 --> 00:22:41,403
He waits until the actors
are so worn out
353
00:22:41,987 --> 00:22:46,033
that they say their lines
without thinking.
354
00:22:46,116 --> 00:22:47,701
When he got here,
we thought he'd go mad.
355
00:22:47,784 --> 00:22:49,703
And now he's just another man.
356
00:22:50,454 --> 00:22:53,874
His face shows neither hatred
nor even suffering anymore.
357
00:22:53,957 --> 00:22:55,042
He's called Orsini.
358
00:22:55,125 --> 00:22:58,045
Actors don't like to do things
over and over. They tire quickly,
359
00:22:58,128 --> 00:23:00,380
so there's always some tension.
360
00:23:01,423 --> 00:23:05,927
But it's up to the director
to impose that discipline.
361
00:23:06,011 --> 00:23:08,221
It's a disciplined film.
362
00:23:08,305 --> 00:23:10,140
It's very strict.
363
00:23:10,223 --> 00:23:12,267
It's utterly austere.
364
00:23:14,978 --> 00:23:18,732
It couldn't possibly
have been fun to make.
365
00:23:18,815 --> 00:23:22,652
Once shooting wrapped,
366
00:23:22,736 --> 00:23:24,613
we had to do the sound.
367
00:23:24,696 --> 00:23:28,325
All the sound was postsynchronized.
368
00:23:32,370 --> 00:23:35,874
You've done your duty.
That will help you hold out.
369
00:23:35,957 --> 00:23:37,000
Look.
370
00:23:39,002 --> 00:23:40,921
There's something called
a rythmo band.
371
00:23:41,004 --> 00:23:45,884
In the recording studio,
372
00:23:45,967 --> 00:23:48,386
they project the film with your lines
373
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:50,430
on a band in sync with the image.
374
00:23:50,514 --> 00:23:53,767
By following that pace,
375
00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:58,105
your voice would match
your lip movements on-screen.
376
00:23:58,188 --> 00:24:00,690
Bresson didn't do it that way.
377
00:24:01,817 --> 00:24:07,489
Alone in the studio,
378
00:24:07,864 --> 00:24:09,533
Bresson watched the scene
379
00:24:09,616 --> 00:24:12,619
and said the lines in his head.
380
00:24:12,702 --> 00:24:14,079
Look.
381
00:24:14,162 --> 00:24:17,082
Once he'd decided
the rhythm of the phrase
382
00:24:17,707 --> 00:24:19,918
to be recorded,
383
00:24:20,001 --> 00:24:21,503
we stopped everything.
384
00:24:21,586 --> 00:24:25,257
You'd been waiting outside.
Now you could enter the studio.
385
00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:27,259
He said the phrase for you
and you repeated it.
386
00:24:27,342 --> 00:24:29,803
You've done your duty.
That will help you hold out.
387
00:24:29,886 --> 00:24:34,224
It took time.
You might repeat it 40, 50, 60 times
388
00:24:34,808 --> 00:24:37,310
until he got what he wanted.
389
00:24:37,394 --> 00:24:41,356
You've done your duty.
That will help you hold out.
390
00:24:41,439 --> 00:24:44,484
I remember doing lines over and over.
391
00:24:45,277 --> 00:24:48,155
A famous one was,
"Go to bed and sleep."
392
00:24:48,238 --> 00:24:51,825
He says it to his young cell mate.
393
00:24:51,908 --> 00:24:54,703
I must have done it 60, 80 times.
394
00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:57,330
But without getting any direction.
395
00:24:57,414 --> 00:25:00,208
I said, "Go to bed and sleep,"
Bresson said, "No."
396
00:25:00,292 --> 00:25:02,377
I'd repeat, "Go to bed and sleep,"
"No."
397
00:25:05,380 --> 00:25:07,799
He didn't tell me
what I was doing wrong.
398
00:25:07,883 --> 00:25:10,427
He waited until the phrase came out —
399
00:25:10,510 --> 00:25:11,678
Go to bed and sleep.
400
00:25:11,761 --> 00:25:13,722
the way he imagined it.
401
00:25:13,805 --> 00:25:15,515
It's time to be quiet now.
402
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:17,309
He went to great lengths.
403
00:25:17,934 --> 00:25:21,897
Once the sound was postsynchronized,
404
00:25:22,689 --> 00:25:24,441
it had to be edited.
405
00:25:25,817 --> 00:25:30,614
Lamy, an excellent editor,
tore his hair out
406
00:25:30,697 --> 00:25:36,870
because Bresson had five or six good takes
of the same phrase,
407
00:25:36,953 --> 00:25:40,207
but he'd say,
"Use the 'I' from the third take,
408
00:25:40,290 --> 00:25:43,627
the 'am' from the second take" —
409
00:25:43,710 --> 00:25:45,462
Word by word.
410
00:25:46,046 --> 00:25:48,882
Bresson wanted him
to take words from different takes.
411
00:25:48,965 --> 00:25:50,550
They'll release you.
412
00:25:50,634 --> 00:25:51,259
No.
413
00:25:52,177 --> 00:25:54,971
- What can I do for you?
- Nothing.
414
00:25:55,055 --> 00:25:56,556
There's always something.
415
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,726
If you listen carefully,
416
00:25:59,809 --> 00:26:01,561
you can hear it on certain lines.
417
00:26:01,645 --> 00:26:02,812
You must understand.
418
00:26:04,064 --> 00:26:06,191
I'm free to say yes or no.
419
00:26:06,274 --> 00:26:08,068
Now you know everything.
420
00:26:08,151 --> 00:26:09,861
I know everything?
421
00:26:09,945 --> 00:26:11,071
Enough.
422
00:26:11,154 --> 00:26:14,157
The acting will always bother me,
423
00:26:14,241 --> 00:26:16,785
the way he had them speak
with such flat voices.
424
00:26:17,369 --> 00:26:22,165
He made them flat
because they couldn't speak as well as he.
425
00:26:22,624 --> 00:26:27,545
When he picked up the script
and read the lines,
426
00:26:28,296 --> 00:26:30,215
it was absolutely fantastic.
427
00:26:30,298 --> 00:26:33,843
His voice has such musicality,
such perfect tone.
428
00:26:33,927 --> 00:26:37,180
The investigation of your case
has been concluded, Lt. Fontaine.
429
00:26:37,681 --> 00:26:43,270
The charges of espionage and planning
a bomb attack are punishable by death.
430
00:26:43,353 --> 00:26:45,105
Accordingly, you will be
executed by firing squad.
431
00:26:45,188 --> 00:26:47,691
Just listen to him speak!
It's such a treat.
432
00:26:47,774 --> 00:26:52,487
When he'd say dialogue
for his "models,"
433
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,906
his voice was perfect,
434
00:26:54,990 --> 00:27:00,704
but the others couldn't reproduce
one-tenth of that perfection.
435
00:27:01,371 --> 00:27:03,456
That's why he couldn't stand actors,
436
00:27:03,540 --> 00:27:08,003
because an actor
can't stop himself from acting.
437
00:27:08,086 --> 00:27:13,717
He couldn't. Actors go crazy
if they have to be absolutely neutral.
438
00:27:14,384 --> 00:27:15,969
It's totally abnormal.
439
00:27:16,052 --> 00:27:20,307
It's true, in other films,
actors never speak like in Bresson's films.
440
00:27:20,390 --> 00:27:23,435
In real life, no one speaks like
in Bresson's films.
441
00:27:23,518 --> 00:27:25,145
The night was dark.
442
00:27:25,228 --> 00:27:27,731
The following night
would be darker still.
443
00:27:27,814 --> 00:27:29,524
It had to be tomorrow.
444
00:27:29,607 --> 00:27:33,278
But in my opinion,
445
00:27:33,361 --> 00:27:36,448
he gave up working with actors
446
00:27:36,531 --> 00:27:41,661
because actors added things
that he didn't want.
447
00:27:41,745 --> 00:27:45,415
They added intention.
He didn't want any intention,
448
00:27:46,499 --> 00:27:48,001
"Except mine!"
449
00:27:48,084 --> 00:27:51,629
Intention is the worst thing.
450
00:27:56,551 --> 00:27:58,303
It's a truly great film
451
00:27:58,386 --> 00:28:01,348
because intention has disappeared.
452
00:28:01,431 --> 00:28:03,767
Everything is one with the story.
453
00:28:03,850 --> 00:28:07,312
It's just the story,
not the person filming the story.
454
00:28:07,395 --> 00:28:12,317
Bresson has disappeared
in the midst of the story he's telling.
455
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,569
That's a masterpiece.
456
00:28:14,652 --> 00:28:16,529
There's nothing worse
than intention.
457
00:28:16,613 --> 00:28:18,239
Mouchette.
458
00:28:18,615 --> 00:28:20,158
That was my second film.
459
00:28:20,241 --> 00:28:22,952
Already, I'd been 1st AD
on Au hasard Balthazar.
460
00:28:25,497 --> 00:28:29,626
The gamekeeper said,
"Where are you going, Mouchette?"
461
00:28:30,919 --> 00:28:34,672
And Robert Bresson asked,
"Why do you say it like a question?"
462
00:28:37,342 --> 00:28:40,136
I'm not trying to say,
"That's how he is,"
463
00:28:40,220 --> 00:28:42,472
but in a way, that says it all.
464
00:28:42,847 --> 00:28:45,141
No feeling.
"Where are you going Mouchette." Period.
465
00:28:45,225 --> 00:28:51,231
He tells his actors
not to look at each other.
466
00:28:51,898 --> 00:28:55,026
Exchanging a look
can charge a scene
467
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:58,822
with intention that is misplaced.
468
00:28:59,197 --> 00:29:01,616
For example, I can speak
without looking at you.
469
00:29:03,952 --> 00:29:06,746
- You mean between actors?
- Yes, in certain scenes
470
00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:11,084
so a look
doesn't take on an undue importance.
471
00:29:11,793 --> 00:29:16,005
How do we stop a look
from having undue importance?
472
00:29:16,089 --> 00:29:21,511
We need to refer to the editing lesson
of that Russian, what's his name?
473
00:29:21,594 --> 00:29:23,263
- Eisenstein.
- No, not him.
474
00:29:24,722 --> 00:29:26,933
It's something with "effect."
The Kuleshov Effect. That's it.
475
00:29:27,016 --> 00:29:31,688
You must take a huge risk.
You subdivide the means of expression,
476
00:29:31,771 --> 00:29:34,149
taking a huge risk
when finalizing the film.
477
00:29:34,232 --> 00:29:37,819
If everything comes together
while shooting,
478
00:29:37,902 --> 00:29:40,280
you're probably not making a film
479
00:29:40,363 --> 00:29:42,157
because it's already done.
480
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,661
You have to take a huge risk
in your mise-en-scène while shooting.
481
00:29:46,744 --> 00:29:50,331
You are preparing
your future means of expression
482
00:29:51,082 --> 00:29:52,625
for the final edit,
483
00:29:52,709 --> 00:29:54,335
but it must be separate.
484
00:29:54,419 --> 00:29:58,423
If you edit while you shoot,
485
00:29:58,506 --> 00:30:00,633
there's nothing left to edit.
486
00:30:00,717 --> 00:30:03,094
He must have intuited it,
487
00:30:03,178 --> 00:30:06,431
for he directed his actor to be neutral.
488
00:30:06,514 --> 00:30:08,141
His expression never changes.
489
00:30:08,224 --> 00:30:10,435
I could finally relax
my stiff arms and wrists.
490
00:30:10,518 --> 00:30:12,479
I felt a sudden sense of victory.
491
00:30:12,562 --> 00:30:16,316
In his narration,
he expresses joy and pain,
492
00:30:16,399 --> 00:30:19,527
like when he learns he's condemned
or his friend will be shot.
493
00:30:19,611 --> 00:30:21,237
Yet his expression never changes.
494
00:30:21,321 --> 00:30:24,491
Terry's departure and the death
of a comrade I had never seen
495
00:30:24,574 --> 00:30:26,075
left me in distress.
496
00:30:27,076 --> 00:30:31,623
It's evoked by the sound of gunshots,
497
00:30:31,706 --> 00:30:34,584
and that's what makes it exceptional,
it's evoked by other things.
498
00:30:38,338 --> 00:30:41,883
The sound doesn't copy the image,
it plays another role.
499
00:30:43,259 --> 00:30:44,511
For example,
500
00:30:44,594 --> 00:30:48,515
when Fontaine expresses joy,
it's in his voice, we don't see his face.
501
00:30:48,598 --> 00:30:49,849
His surprise pleased me.
502
00:30:49,933 --> 00:30:52,644
He says he is happy
because he found a way,
503
00:30:52,727 --> 00:30:54,437
but it's not expressed
with his face,
504
00:30:54,812 --> 00:30:56,147
only his voice.
505
00:30:56,231 --> 00:30:59,776
It's like the sound effects —
the passing of a train or a tram.
506
00:30:59,859 --> 00:31:03,655
It's a sort of a counterpoint to the image.
507
00:31:03,738 --> 00:31:06,950
It's never redundant.
They never express the same thing.
508
00:31:07,033 --> 00:31:10,745
It gives the film an incredible depth.
509
00:31:23,466 --> 00:31:25,218
What's the matter?
510
00:31:30,598 --> 00:31:34,269
The sounds were entirely redone in post.
511
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,440
I was lucky enough to be present
512
00:31:39,524 --> 00:31:45,446
at Poste Parisien on the Champs-Élysées
in the recording studio.
513
00:31:45,530 --> 00:31:49,117
Daniel Couteau did the sound effects
and he was excellent.
514
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,327
He did the sound effects on all his films.
515
00:31:51,411 --> 00:31:54,622
I watched them work on the scene
516
00:31:54,706 --> 00:32:00,211
where Fontaine tosses his hook
over the guard's path
517
00:32:00,295 --> 00:32:02,046
and it gets caught on a wire.
518
00:32:02,130 --> 00:32:06,718
A sound was needed
for the vibration of the wire.
519
00:32:07,385 --> 00:32:11,055
Bresson had
a very specific sound in mind.
520
00:32:11,764 --> 00:32:15,768
It took almost an entire day.
521
00:32:17,854 --> 00:32:20,940
Couteau tried wires, cables,
all sorts of things.
522
00:32:21,024 --> 00:32:22,775
He made them vibrate.
523
00:32:22,859 --> 00:32:25,862
He even tried violin strings.
524
00:32:26,696 --> 00:32:29,407
He experimented all day
until they finally found it.
525
00:32:29,741 --> 00:32:32,702
In the film,
that sound is of great importance
526
00:32:32,785 --> 00:32:34,621
because it could've alerted the guards.
527
00:32:34,704 --> 00:32:36,539
This man had to disappear.
528
00:32:46,049 --> 00:32:47,634
It's totally surrealistic
529
00:32:47,717 --> 00:32:51,929
in the sense
that it isn't realistic at all.
530
00:32:52,013 --> 00:32:55,558
And yet it uses "real" elements
like a train whistle.
531
00:32:56,100 --> 00:33:00,063
It's an expressionist film.
532
00:33:00,146 --> 00:33:03,149
It's totally abstract.
533
00:33:03,232 --> 00:33:07,445
And I think the choice of abstraction
in the mise-en-scène
534
00:33:07,528 --> 00:33:09,280
is what gives it its depth.
535
00:33:12,575 --> 00:33:14,994
It'd be impossible with location sound.
536
00:33:15,078 --> 00:33:20,333
Location sound gives such a sense
of reality that you can't get past it.
537
00:33:20,416 --> 00:33:26,047
Here, he takes the risk
of using only one sound and one voice.
538
00:33:26,130 --> 00:33:28,675
A combination of two sounds, no more.
539
00:33:28,758 --> 00:33:33,680
Reality is never like that.
Its sounds are so complex...
540
00:33:35,014 --> 00:33:36,933
that he needs to make them abstract.
541
00:33:41,354 --> 00:33:46,567
The character's spiritual tension
is expressed in his actions.
542
00:33:46,651 --> 00:33:51,489
If it wasn't, we'd just be watching
a guy trying to escape.
543
00:33:51,572 --> 00:33:53,366
Who cares about that?
544
00:33:53,449 --> 00:33:57,495
It's a way for the film
545
00:33:59,455 --> 00:34:03,584
to express something mystical,
546
00:34:03,668 --> 00:34:08,464
our need to try to escape,
to believe in tomorrow.
547
00:34:10,633 --> 00:34:13,886
I didn't know anything
about the film industry.
548
00:34:14,846 --> 00:34:18,307
I'd never been on a film set before,
549
00:34:20,476 --> 00:34:21,811
so I didn't realize...
550
00:34:21,894 --> 00:34:27,817
Certain members of the crew told me,
"It's usually not like this, you know."
551
00:34:28,985 --> 00:34:31,070
"We don't usually do things this way."
552
00:34:31,154 --> 00:34:34,157
For them, it was very different
553
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:37,952
than shooting a "normal" film.
554
00:34:38,035 --> 00:34:42,206
He emanated a great sense of calm.
555
00:34:43,166 --> 00:34:46,002
He was very nice,
556
00:34:46,085 --> 00:34:49,464
very courteous to everyone,
557
00:34:49,547 --> 00:34:54,135
but he could also spend two hours
on his own to think,
558
00:34:54,218 --> 00:34:58,806
figuring out how to do a certain shot
and so on.
559
00:34:58,890 --> 00:35:02,351
But we had to keep still.
560
00:35:02,435 --> 00:35:04,604
It wasn't like on other sets,
561
00:35:04,687 --> 00:35:10,568
while lighting is being done,
assistants start chatting and joking.
562
00:35:10,651 --> 00:35:11,861
No way!
563
00:35:11,944 --> 00:35:16,407
The set was absolutely calm.
564
00:35:16,491 --> 00:35:19,202
It creates an incredible tension
565
00:35:19,952 --> 00:35:25,124
not to know what to do,
not being allowed to move, and so on.
566
00:35:25,208 --> 00:35:31,130
It's the only film that when
shooting wrapped, I was exhausted.
567
00:35:31,214 --> 00:35:34,175
Not physically,
but psychologically.
568
00:35:35,843 --> 00:35:38,846
Utterly exhausted from nervous tension.
569
00:35:38,930 --> 00:35:42,642
It wasn't like a shoot with Claude Sautet
570
00:35:42,725 --> 00:35:45,937
with sudden fits of anger.
571
00:35:46,020 --> 00:35:49,398
Although there was some on Lancelot.
That wasn't so calm.
572
00:35:49,482 --> 00:35:53,402
Otherwise, you were under
constant nervous tension
573
00:35:54,362 --> 00:35:58,449
if you were invested in the film.
574
00:35:58,533 --> 00:36:00,701
You could wait up to two hours...
575
00:36:03,287 --> 00:36:05,706
for him to make a decision.
576
00:36:05,790 --> 00:36:08,459
On Lancelot,
he told them to set up a dolly shot —
577
00:36:08,543 --> 00:36:10,753
How the crew grumbled! —
578
00:36:11,629 --> 00:36:13,130
in the woods.
579
00:36:13,214 --> 00:36:15,132
It was a fairly long dolly shot.
580
00:36:15,216 --> 00:36:17,009
He had them change its position
three times
581
00:36:17,093 --> 00:36:21,848
because once the track had been laid,
he saw it wasn't what he wanted.
582
00:36:21,931 --> 00:36:26,727
In addition, we were shooting outside,
so as the sun moved,
583
00:36:26,811 --> 00:36:30,147
the lighting also changed,
and he didn't like it anymore.
584
00:36:30,231 --> 00:36:34,610
"Move everything back six feet."
The grips were furious.
585
00:36:34,694 --> 00:36:38,781
I knew one from a previous film,
and he was at his wit's end.
586
00:36:39,490 --> 00:36:43,202
They were at their wits' end because
587
00:36:43,286 --> 00:36:47,373
unless you accept his logic,
588
00:36:47,456 --> 00:36:51,252
you can't understand why
an entire dolly track is moved six feet,
589
00:36:51,335 --> 00:36:53,462
and if that's not right,
it's moved again
590
00:36:53,546 --> 00:36:56,299
and it take five hours to do one shot.
591
00:36:56,382 --> 00:36:58,968
Some were for him,
some against him.
592
00:37:00,303 --> 00:37:02,638
Those on his side
593
00:37:03,598 --> 00:37:06,142
are attentive to every word he says,
594
00:37:06,684 --> 00:37:11,147
they don't get upset if he's already
595
00:37:11,856 --> 00:37:15,902
moved the camera
six or seven times,
596
00:37:15,985 --> 00:37:17,862
each time by two inches.
597
00:37:17,945 --> 00:37:20,197
They understood.
598
00:37:20,281 --> 00:37:24,493
It's not quite right,
and with a tiny change, it's better.
599
00:37:24,577 --> 00:37:26,996
They realize it's not because
he doesn't know what he's doing.
600
00:37:27,079 --> 00:37:29,582
It's because he knows how to look,
how to choose,
601
00:37:29,665 --> 00:37:35,254
and he knows
this isn't where he wants it.
602
00:37:35,338 --> 00:37:40,217
Moving the camera eight inches to the right
changes everything.
603
00:37:40,676 --> 00:37:43,387
The ones against him think,
604
00:37:43,471 --> 00:37:46,349
"The old geezer still doesn't know
what he wants."
605
00:37:47,725 --> 00:37:50,895
I've heard people say that,
but I won't name names!
606
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:57,026
They warned me,
"He is constantly redoing shots."
607
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:59,445
"What do you mean?"
"He redoes shots.
608
00:37:59,528 --> 00:38:03,407
He's not happy with them.
We don't always know why.
609
00:38:03,491 --> 00:38:07,620
But he redoes shots.
So be ready to redo shots."
610
00:38:07,703 --> 00:38:09,997
Producers hated that.
611
00:38:10,206 --> 00:38:13,125
He had a close call with Alain Poiré.
612
00:38:16,337 --> 00:38:19,757
Was it in Lyon?
No, Paris. On a soundstage.
613
00:38:21,133 --> 00:38:26,555
Certain shots had been planned that day
in the shooting schedule,
614
00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:28,474
but Bresson said,
"We're not doing that,
615
00:38:28,557 --> 00:38:31,769
I saw the dailies
and I want to redo certain shots."
616
00:38:31,852 --> 00:38:36,065
The production supervisor said,
"It will cause trouble."
617
00:38:36,148 --> 00:38:37,692
"I don't care."
618
00:38:38,234 --> 00:38:43,739
So we started doing a reshoot
of a shot we'd already done.
619
00:38:44,740 --> 00:38:49,578
As we were setting up the shot,
620
00:38:50,538 --> 00:38:56,669
someone ran in and said,
"Alain Poiré from Gaumont is here.
621
00:38:56,752 --> 00:38:58,754
He's coming to the set."
622
00:38:59,296 --> 00:39:03,759
It'd be a disaster
if he saw us doing reshoots.
623
00:39:04,468 --> 00:39:08,597
In three minutes, we set up
the shots we were supposed to be doing
624
00:39:08,681 --> 00:39:10,808
and pretended to shoot them.
625
00:39:12,810 --> 00:39:14,687
So when Alain Poiré arrived,
626
00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:18,858
we were "shooting" what we were
supposed to, perfectly on schedule.
627
00:39:18,941 --> 00:39:22,194
We weren't really filming
because the lighting was all wrong.
628
00:39:22,278 --> 00:39:24,822
Poiré was very pleased.
629
00:39:25,448 --> 00:39:28,701
As soon as he left,
we went back to doing the other shot.
630
00:39:28,784 --> 00:39:32,163
Doing reshoots is fine,
631
00:39:32,246 --> 00:39:34,749
but he had limited shooting time,
like everyone.
632
00:39:34,832 --> 00:39:38,419
I asked him,
during Au hasard Balthazar,
633
00:39:38,502 --> 00:39:40,379
"Mr. Bresson,
634
00:39:40,463 --> 00:39:44,341
I don't understand. The shooting schedule
is much too short to do everything we need.
635
00:39:45,009 --> 00:39:51,223
From experience, you know how long
it takes you to do a shot."
636
00:39:51,307 --> 00:39:52,808
"Yes, I know."
637
00:39:52,892 --> 00:39:55,561
"Then why did you accept
this shooting schedule?"
638
00:39:55,644 --> 00:39:59,065
"If I refused,
saying I needed two more weeks,
639
00:39:59,148 --> 00:40:00,900
the film would never get made.
640
00:40:00,983 --> 00:40:03,903
I signed the shooting schedule.
I'll sign whatever they ask.
641
00:40:03,986 --> 00:40:09,325
But in the midst of shooting,
if we're a week behind schedule,
642
00:40:09,408 --> 00:40:11,494
I modified it.
What can they do?"
643
00:40:11,577 --> 00:40:14,246
I liked working with him.
644
00:40:14,330 --> 00:40:19,794
I think he really needed someone
645
00:40:20,252 --> 00:40:25,549
who understood his worries
646
00:40:26,634 --> 00:40:29,720
and could also reassure him.
647
00:40:30,554 --> 00:40:36,352
One Saturday he said,
"Geneviève, I'd like to speak to you.
648
00:40:36,435 --> 00:40:39,271
Come see me
after everyone goes home."
649
00:40:39,355 --> 00:40:41,232
I thought, "It's over.
650
00:40:41,690 --> 00:40:47,363
Did I make some huge mistake
or he doesn't like me? What is it?"
651
00:40:47,905 --> 00:40:51,200
When I went to see him,
I was pretty worried.
652
00:40:51,992 --> 00:40:54,286
I didn't show it, but I was.
653
00:40:54,370 --> 00:40:59,708
He said, "I asked to talk to you
because since I've gotten to know you.
654
00:41:00,292 --> 00:41:06,757
I get the feeling you understand...
what I'm trying to do."
655
00:41:06,841 --> 00:41:10,469
I'd seen all his films,
and I told him I found them fiery.
656
00:41:10,553 --> 00:41:13,889
People generally found them ice-cold.
657
00:41:14,765 --> 00:41:17,309
He said, "After two weeks of shooting,
658
00:41:17,393 --> 00:41:18,978
I'm totally lost.
659
00:41:19,061 --> 00:41:20,938
I'm full of doubts.
660
00:41:21,564 --> 00:41:26,026
So I need to talk to you" —
661
00:41:26,110 --> 00:41:27,903
To be reassured.
662
00:41:29,113 --> 00:41:31,907
I was really surprised
a director like him had doubts.
663
00:41:31,991 --> 00:41:36,829
But now I believe all the great ones
doubt their work.
664
00:41:37,204 --> 00:41:39,498
Perhaps you've seen that?
665
00:41:39,874 --> 00:41:42,543
I think a great painter
666
00:41:42,626 --> 00:41:46,463
must suddenly doubt
his painting or technique.
667
00:41:46,547 --> 00:41:47,673
He had doubts.
668
00:42:11,197 --> 00:42:14,617
The risks he takes to privilege
form over content are amazing.
669
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:17,119
Today, it's the opposite.
It's what I call "filmed theater."
670
00:42:17,203 --> 00:42:18,913
The content dominates.
671
00:42:19,622 --> 00:42:24,793
Most directors are mere drudges,
just following along. They do nothing.
672
00:42:25,336 --> 00:42:31,467
But he takes enormous risks
in terms of stylistic invention.
673
00:42:32,968 --> 00:42:34,762
To the form, he gives —
674
00:42:35,846 --> 00:42:37,181
He lets the form shine,
675
00:42:37,264 --> 00:42:39,642
but only to express the content,
and suddenly, it does.
676
00:42:39,725 --> 00:42:42,937
His films have an incredible depth
677
00:42:43,020 --> 00:42:48,525
which "filmed theater" lacks,
despite a similar style.
678
00:43:09,797 --> 00:43:12,508
It's probably his purest film,
679
00:43:12,591 --> 00:43:14,760
the most pared-down and concentrated
680
00:43:14,843 --> 00:43:17,429
of either his previous
or subsequent works.
681
00:43:18,806 --> 00:43:23,352
His later films
aren't as concentrated.
682
00:43:24,019 --> 00:43:25,938
They aren't as pure.
683
00:43:26,021 --> 00:43:31,360
I think at that moment
he'd found his true path.
684
00:43:32,236 --> 00:43:36,865
It's the sort of film
that no one wants to see,
685
00:43:37,449 --> 00:43:40,703
but if you make them watch it,
686
00:43:40,786 --> 00:43:42,538
they'll be fascinated.
687
00:43:42,621 --> 00:43:44,665
But they must be forced.
688
00:43:46,792 --> 00:43:50,212
One of my kids,
689
00:43:50,296 --> 00:43:51,964
he must have been seven or eight
690
00:43:52,047 --> 00:43:54,925
when I made him watch
Au hasard Balthazar.
691
00:43:55,009 --> 00:43:57,011
For 10 minutes,
he completely rejected it,
692
00:43:57,094 --> 00:43:58,804
but then he was fascinated.
693
00:43:58,887 --> 00:44:02,558
The images are what fascinates.
694
00:44:03,309 --> 00:44:06,979
Everything you see is off-putting.
695
00:44:07,062 --> 00:44:11,775
But then that feeling reverses,
696
00:44:11,859 --> 00:44:13,402
and the opposite occurs.
697
00:44:13,485 --> 00:44:16,655
That's the form.
It's an austere film,
698
00:44:16,739 --> 00:44:20,451
but its austerity leads to joy,
699
00:44:20,534 --> 00:44:24,580
the joy of a filmgoer
who's seen a work of substance.
700
00:44:24,997 --> 00:44:28,000
But this joy is inversely proportional
701
00:44:28,083 --> 00:44:31,920
to the viewing difficulty.
702
00:44:32,504 --> 00:44:35,674
It's an austere film.
You're rewarded at the end.
703
00:44:35,758 --> 00:44:39,511
The reward is in remembering the film,
not watching the film.
704
00:44:39,595 --> 00:44:41,388
The film is tough!
705
00:44:42,306 --> 00:44:45,434
That's cinema,
what we do with it later.
706
00:44:45,934 --> 00:44:51,273
This film will leave you
with a fantastic memory,
707
00:44:52,441 --> 00:44:56,445
but the day you watch it,
it's an effort.
708
00:44:56,945 --> 00:44:59,198
It's all in retrospect.
709
00:44:59,531 --> 00:45:04,036
But it works! For example,
my son still talks about it.
710
00:45:05,954 --> 00:45:07,748
It doesn't fit today's lifestyle.
711
00:45:07,831 --> 00:45:11,418
People want immediate gratification.
712
00:45:12,252 --> 00:45:14,171
That's not Bresson.
713
00:45:14,254 --> 00:45:16,256
The pleasure comes afterward.